Saturday, August 04, 2007

Muslim extremist as a consultant for Dutch Government

Mrs. Vogelaar, Dutch minister of Integration keeps on talking with an extremist Muslim!

A head piece of the fundamentalist Muslim brotherhood appears recently as an official speaker with the Dutch government. Yahia Bouyafa, a 45 year old person who was born in Morocco, has been recently appointed as President of the contact group Islam (CGI the Netherlands) as a continuation of the Germany imam swerved Abdullah Haselhoef. Bouyafa emerge in studies of information services into branches of the Muslim brotherhood. The movement strives for Islamic world predominance.
The anti-immigration party PVV and the moderate liberal party VVD sent questions to the parliament.

As Emre praised her in his post, he might not be amused with this news.

5 comments:

VLR said...

Well Hans, as far as i can see, the news came only in one newspaper last Saturday: De Telegraaf (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/68504221/Vogelaar_praat_met_extreme_moslim.html). Not really a paper to rely on, with its sensationalist agenda. The article was also mentioned on Dutch news site Nu.nl (http://www.nu.nl/news/1183020/11/PVV_wil_opheldering_over_Contact_Groep_Islam.html). On this site it is stated that mr. Bouyafa is "allegedly" seen by Ingtelligence Services as "a spider in the web of the Muslim Brotherhood". The aricle also says that mrs. Vogelaar has not yet spoken to mr. Bouyafa as he became spokesman for CGI only a short time ago. A spokesman of mrs. Vogelaar's Ministry also says that it always checked whom the minister will be talking to.

Another controversial point however is mrs. Vogelaar's statement about the Netherlands being culturally a Judeo-Christian country and the reasons she gives why it is. She said that the fact that in the 17th century many jews came to the Netherlands and have ever since had an important role in Dutch culture have made the Netherlands a Judeo-Christian country. However Judeo-Christian culture in the Netherlands is much older as Christianity derives from Judaism. Also the Old Testament is an important factor in Dutch religious history.
In turn, Islam has a lot in common with both Chritianity and Judaism and has a pre history in those believes.

So the most important fact mrs. Vogelaar said in her statement was that Islam has become part of Dutch thinking wether we like it or not. Ans that both muslims and non muslims have to deal with that.

Personally i think mrs. Vogelaar is right about that. Although - in my view - all monotheistic believes are obstacles to bearing personal responsability. If things are good they come from God. If they are bad they come from the enemy - whoever that enemy is: non-believers, other believers, socialists, imperialists, etc.

As for the Bouyafa affair: of course Wilders asked questions about it, and of course mr. Rutte jumped on mr. Wilders' bandwagon. He always does, as a xenophobic stance always seems to pay.

Hope temperatures are going down a bit in Istanbul (as i hope they 'll rise a bit overhere before i go on holiday)!

Best regards!

Bertus

Hans A.H.C. de Wit said...

Right. At least a discussion started. But many Dutch will not agree with you Bertus.
Temperatures still above normal 30 and higher.
Where are you heading for?
Kindest

VLR said...

Probably many Dutch won't agree with me on what i said about monotheism etc. And why not? It makes life interesting.
But probably quite a lot of people do agree that muslims are part of Dutch society, and that both muslims and non muslims have to deal with that.

I'm going to Zambia. Hotter than The Hague, but probably cooler than Mexico. Have a good time there!

Best regards
Bertus

Hans said...

Bertus, yes, I disagree with you.
Islam doesnt have anything in common with Judaism or Christianity.
And 30 years of Islam presence in the Netherlands, without any cultural contribution...telling that its 'our heritage'. Tell a Turk in Turkey that Greek Ortodox is part of 'their heritage' or Armenian....

If Turkey consider their minorities as second class people...how can Islam be equal with our Legal system...
I was planning to write about my first trip to Mexico, been there many times...now I am staying in SE Europe, enjoy Zambia/
Kindest

VLR said...

Dear Hans,

1.
Relationship and resemblances of Islam with Christianity and Judaism are historical facts.

2.
The idea that ‘they’ gave ‘us’ a cultural contribution (whether ‘they’ are believers in Judaism or in Islam) is an idea I strongly object to. It is also the great mistake mrs. Vogelaar makes by stating that the influx of Jews in the 17th century made our Christian culture a Judeo-Christian culture. Dutch culture was already a Judeo-Christian culture by that time.

3.
In the Netherlands I know quite a lot of people from the Middle East or who have their roots in the Middle East, some of them are good friends. Most of them have something to do with culture, some of them are artists. Most of them are non practicing Muslims or non believers. Fact is that they grew up in a Muslim culture. Even if they are non believers themselves. Their stories, their poems, their paintings, their films are all part of modern Dutch society and - if you wish - of modern Dutch cultural heritage. They are not foreign contributions to our Judeo-Christian culture, they have become part of that culture.

4.
Mrs. Vogelaars advisers are clearly neither historians nor philosophers. But the fact that we have to deal with Dutch people who are Muslims and that Islam has become part of Dutch society is something we have to accept. Personally I’d have preferred to add that Muslims themselves should realize that fact as well, and draw the consequences from that fact. It is not ‘we’ who should accept ‘them’ or ‘they’ who should accept ‘us’, it is ‘we’ who should accept ‘each other‘.

5.
You ask ‘If Turkey consider their minorities as second class people...how can Islam be equal with our Legal system…’ Don’t tell me the Dutch have never considered any minorities to be second class people. If that was the case, we would never have had any servants, or slavery, or any colonies; we would never have Jews kept apart from important parts of society, we would never have seen homosexuality as a wrong aberration, we would never have seen women as the servants of men. In fact we would always have been the ideal society.
Did I say somewhere that Islam is equal to our legal system? I think I should be the last one to imply something like that.
The only thing I said is that Muslims are part of Dutch society and that we have to accept that and deal with it. Denial is the best ticket for catastrophe.

Ow yes, I thought you were actually in Mexico. I see you aren’t . But it would be nice to read about your adventures there.

Best reagards,
Bertus