Thursday, October 25, 2007

Turks Riots in Brussels and Amsterdam; Attack Armenians & Kurds

Update from Brussels Journal: the list of "sensitive urban areas"--a polite term for entire sections of cities where even police dare not go because of Islamic violence--is growing.

In Amsterdam, an Islamic extremist linked to terrorists via both family ties and friends, walked into a police station and began stabbing a policewoman and a colleague.

Barely saving her life, the policewoman shot Bilal Bijacka. The result? Massive Islamic riots because not only an infidel, but an infidel woman, killed an Islamic male.

His attack came two years after his brother was arrested in a terrorist plot to blow up a passenger airliner. And, Bijacka's friends included Mohammed Bouyeri. Bouyeri, one of the Jihadists in the interlinked web of violence and hatred, ritually murdered a Dutch film maker, Theo van Gogh, in 2004.

As both Brussels and Amsterdam grapple with violent immigrants who literally have taken over portions of their cities and sack, loot and plunder them at will, the rest of the western world may want to reconsider immigration. When police simply dare not enforce laws in entire districts, there is no law except that of blood, violence, hatred, and mob rule.

Here's a classic case of how not to get sympathy for your cause. Turks in both Brussels and Amsterdam have been on a rampage as tensions mount on Turkey's borders.
The current riots follow September's Ramadan riots. Brussels was also engulfed in Ramadan riots in 2006.

Last night (Wednesday evening) heavy rioting erupted in Turkish quarters of Brussels, the capital of Belgium. Buses and trams were attacked. Several cars were torched and shops destroyed. Police forces were unable to restore law and order in the boroughs of Sint-Joost-ten-Node and Schaarbeek where since last Sunday the animosity among Turks is running high. Turkish flags are omnipresent. In some streets the Turkish crescent and star adorns almost every house.
The Turks’ anger was provoked by rising tension with Kurds along the Iraqi-Turkish border and by the debate in the American Congress about the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in 1915. On Sunday night Turkish youths in Sint-Joost destroyed the pub of Peter Petrossian, an ethnic Armenian who had to flee for his life.


Bea said...

I read the other day where there are about 5 million Turks living abroad and 3 million in the EU countries with only about 1.5 million holding citizenship in their host countries. Thinking about today's violence in Brussels and Amsterdam, I wonder what more is to come.

With so many young Turks disenfranchised especially in these countries, they have nothing better to do than run riot, literally, in the streets leaving residents terrified of what is to come.

Maybe the EU governments and others as well should reconsider open immigration policies or learn that whomever enters the doors bring with them the blights of their home countries.

Ardent said...

Many immigrants seem to take advantage of host countries, where law and enforcement is more relaxed.

The turks of that district would not act like that in Turkey because of the heavy hand of the law and where individual rights are probably non-existant during interogation by police.

Any person who cannot assimilate into their new country and are violent trouble-makers ought to be sent back to their country of birth.

We are very lucky as we do not have riots of such in Australia. Which leads me to ask, Is this a clash of Cultures? Or is this a violent demonstration bought about by Socio-Economic factors?

Also the story of the policewoman being stabbed is quite horific and one naturally feels disgust for her attacker. I HATE all types of violence. But if her attacker were to speak, I wonder if this is a random act of violence or did the police woman provoke this response. Every action provokes a reaction. Who will ever know?????

Belgium should ask no questions, just send them back to Turkey.

Bertus Pieters said...

Dear Hans,
I work in the Slotervaart area and there is NO mass violence there. Although there has been unrest during the night. The page you are linking to seems - to say the least - a bit sensationalist. It seems to find all kinds of facts without mentioning adequate sources.


Anonymous said...

From what I know, the guy who attacked the police officers was mentally instable. He had been released from an observation clinic or mental hospital shortly before his attack, if I am not mistaken.

Hans said...

Dear Bertus,
Its mainly about Brussels. But dont tell me that nothing is going on in Amsterdam.
Myrthe, yes, he was. And his sisters are a medical doctor and a judge in the Netherlads...
He had a long history of violence too...

yasemin said...

Hans, you like writing 'sensational' posts, and it is quite disturbing, to tell the truth... Someone from that area is saying that there is no mass violence and you continue to defend what you have written.. I am sorry, but before writing, one should do a bit more research... And we should take everything we find in media (be it the printed media, the visual one or internet) with a pinch of salt, because we all know that 'sensational news' sells.

super hero said...

well hans, you criticize it when others use "sensational" stories so i would expect you better. also i find it rather disturbing to link the islamic attack and the turkish so-claimed mass violence in the same article, because obviously enough they are two irrelevant cases. perhaps they are all the same for someone who is not so deep into the situation and also who doesnt really care, but my guess again, you know better than a typical ignorant.

Bertus Pieters said...

Dear Hans,
I didn't say nothing is going on. I didn't say the facts are not disturbing. I don't play down the seriousness of the situation. But your source (and it's sources) seems to be unreliable and gives a sensationalist picture. And it is definitely not comparable to the 2005 mass disturbances in Paris. Apart from the sources it is also quite difficult where the webpage is giving the facts and where it is giving an opinion.


Hans said...

Yasemin, SH,
You both are right. I took this article to show how some of the mass media outlets are doing in Europe. The same kind of media reports you look every day in Hurriyet, Sabah, La Posta etc. which you take for serious...
And yes, there are problems in Brussels, nobody can deny that.
Turks have a very peaceful name in Europe, but when it comes up to Armenia and Kurds, they...are lost..
This was a provocative post of me, a jump dump link...

Hans said...

I find it quiet disturbing accusing me of spreading sensational news, since that is your source of news, day by day!
I showed you Brussels News, and I edited it btw. But don't turn around the facts that Kurdish and Armenians are attacked daily now, in Turkey or in West Europe?
Say hello to Gabr.

yasemin said...


Anonymous said...


The guy was mentally unstable but he was also an acquaintance of Mohammed Bouyeri, the executioner of Theo van Gogh. Also his brother Abdullah was investigated in 2005 with respect to terrorist plots:


müzi said...

reading this post and then the comments really made me uncomfortable. There are so many things to point at in the comments, but I want to say something in reply to Ardent's comment.

Ardent, immigrants are not second-class people. you cannot just kick them out of a country. If they are legal immigrants, this means that they have the right to stay in that country. And if they commit a crime, then they should be punished in the same way as the other citizens. Punishing them in a different way would be nothing but discrimination.

And a general mistake that is being made is that, immigrants are represented as people who just 'take' from their host countries. This is so wrong. If you look at statistics in governments' papers (I know Great Britain's statistics) you can see how immigrants contribute to the economies of their host countries. In this case, you should bear in mind that European countries accept immigrants not just to give a hand to people in need, but also for the sake of their own economies. Don't forget, immigrants mean cheap labour, just what everyone wants!

Finally, Hans,
sorry to see that Yasemin is gone. Her balanced and very well-written posts and comments were a good contribution to this site. Actually, her views and criticisms were something that this website needed.

Bertus Pieters said...

Dear Hans,

I read the article in Brussels Journal again today, which gave me some more understanding of your own article. But i fail to see what journalism has to do with the BJ article.

The article ends:
“Meanwhile in Amsterdam, the capital of the Netherlands, Moroccan youths have been burning cars for more than a week now. Today a 15-year old Amsterdam schoolboy was stabbed by youths. The boy survived the attack but is seriously wounded. On 11 October a 16-year old Amsterdam boy was stabbed to death in school. On 4 September a similar incident occurred in the Belgian city of Ghent where a 14-year old Belgian boy fought for his life after being stabbed in the throat by two immigrant youths from his school.”

Why are the riots in Brussels and Amsterdam linked in the article? What message does it want to get across?
The disturbances in Brussels and Amsterdam have nothing to do with each other, apart from the fact that both riots have to do with immigrants. And probably the fact that these immigrants come from Muslim countries. Where does journalism end and where does the opinion of the journalist start in this article? I don’t know about the boy in Ghent, but - as far as I know - the stabbed “Amsterdam boys” where both of Moroccan descent. That doesn’t make the facts more or less barbaric. But with the description “Amsterdam boy”, my first idea is something white, maybe even blond. Indeed that tells something about the bias in my mind (for quite a lot of “Amsterdam boys” are not white) , but also about the journalist who is trying to use that bias.

And again, you yourself maintain that there were massive Islamic riots in Amsterdam. Now I don’t know how you understand “massive Islamic riots” but I didn’t see or hear anything close to that definition in Amsterdam.

Also you maintain that both Brussels and Amsterdam are grappling “with violent immigrants who literally take over portions of their cities and sack, loot and plunder them at will“. Well, I don’t know about Brussels. But for Amsterdam this is just not true. I recognize that the danger is there and real and there were and are serious law and order problems. But the picture you give of a city with no go areas and “violent immigrants” who are constantly on the rampage, is sheer nonsense.


Hans said...

Dear Bertus,
I already said this was sensational news.
But next to that, if I open, it looks like that everyday someting happen.
Spoke with a friend in Amsterdam, and he said that situation worries him.

Bertus Pieters said...

Yes, you said so in the comments. But your article itself still gives the strong impression you fully agree with everything what is said about the problems in the linked articles.

As I’ve said before, I don’t play down the situation. Today is the first day doesn’t report the burning of a car, either in Slotervaart or elsewhere (it wasn’t just Slotervaart).
It is very worrying, and the fact that the atmosphere is tense doesn’t mean things might go out of hand. Frustrations at both sides of the spectrum are too high. It brings us to a situation where people prefer acting before thinking. Where things will be dealt with in a Wilders way, a Verdonk way, a fundamentalist way, an extremist way. Where you are forced to choose between two bad things. And where peace loving, innocent people are the real victims.

That is what is worrying me most.

I fully agree that protesting Turks in Brussels are not really advertising their cause in a way that the public will sympathize with them. To say the least.


Hans said...

then we agree.
i don't like these kind of articles. i took it integral over.
btw, there is also tension in tr.

Anonymous said...

If your point was that this was sensation-seeking news and that you don't agree with that way of news-bringing, then you should have said that explicitly in your post. After rereading the post twice over, I don't find any statement in that direction in the post.

You said in your comment of October 28, 2007 3:20 PM, that looking at Dutch newswebsites it seems that everyday something is happening. I agree with you, but I also think that there is no evidence that these stabbings at schools, burning of cars are in any way related (I agree that there could very well be a relation between the incident at the police office and the burning of cars in the same area).

As for kicking Yasmin off the blog for her comment, I find that a bit harsh. I don't recall her saying in this commentthread or elsewhere on the blog that she is "turn[ing] around the facts that Kurdish and Armenians are attacked daily now, in Turkey or in West Europe." I don't think she ever said anything like that.

You want a blog that is a place for honest and open discussion (see the top of the sidebar under "About Internations Musings"), well, it seems you are the first person not to allow discussion here.

I think you are overreacting to Yasmin's comment. Whether there is more going on behind the scenes than I know, I don't know. From what I do know, I find your reaction of banning her somewhat over the top

Anonymous said...

I take back the las three paragraphs of my previous comment, because apparently Yasmin was not banned, but resigned herself. To be honest, I don't know really what is going on here anymore, whether she was banned or quit herself so I'll refrain from commenting on this issue in public.

The first part of my comment still stands, which is why I don't take down the entire comment.

Hans A.H.C. de Wit said...

It looks that I am banned. The only thing I can do is post. Nothing else.
I am complete blocked.