Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Lack of humor?

A man from the Aegean resort town of Bodrum is facing charges of “insulting the spirit of Turkishness” after being taken into custody by the police Monday for dressing his dog in a t-shirt that said “Turk.” Read this exiting news here..))

15 comments:

kathryn merteuil said...

I guess the didn't share the same humor....
Do you think it was meant as an insult?

Hans said...

An insult?..))
You can see Bush in all kind of colors of the rainbow, in all kind of 'outfits', even the pope...was portrayed as a dog..))
'Turkishness needs a threatment'..))

Sincerae said...

Two mistakes here.

First, dressing his dog up and labeling him as a Turk is carrying nationalism to a ridiculous extreme. What next?
Second, the authorities and the public's reaction shows clearly that Turkey is not a fully functioning democracy. Turkey did a lot of trivial window dressing to try to ease into the EU, but its' brand of democracy hasn't been bought by Europe.

I see a scary downward spiral in Turkey if things don't change soon. And yes, in the US we can insult Bush all we like as long as the insults aren't threats to assassinate him.

Metin said...

Sincerae: I don't think Turkey is a Democracy (and neither is the USA), it (they) is(are) Republic(s).

In a true democracy, if the 51% thought the dog should be topless, then the 49% would have to live with it.

In a Republic, even if 1% felt that the rights of the dog or the owner was violated, then the 99% would have to make the 1% comfortable.

You need to stop your negative and critical comments about Turkey and its 'downward' spiral at every opportunity you get. The same could be said about the US

Why can't we concentrate on some of the progress that is being made especially in the past few years.

It took years to get here, so it's going to take a few to make it right.

Insulting Bush and this incident are not the one and the same. In Turkey, there's a culture of respecting the 'elders,' whether 'elder' represents the aged and senile, or a statesman.

The office that Bush represents need to be respected. Even if Bush himself may not be.

In this example of the dog and its t-shirt, the authorities, and the media, are carrying this a little too far. But this incident is not a measuring stick for democracy.

I do agree wholeheartedly that article 301 and 'Turkishness' need an extreme makeover, but cries of outrage and downward spirals do not add to the debate, but flame the polarization.

The glass is half full, but I'm drinking it, so fill it up again!

Sincerae said...

Metin,

No, the US is not a full democracy, but it certainly not a farce trying to masquerade as one to get brownie points. I don't care what anyone says about the US. I don't have to get on the defensive. All I know is better the devil you know. I know this devil very well over here, and at least for now there are avenues that if people work hard enough, obstacles can be surmounted.

When I taught in Turkey I even told my students they didn't have to hold back in criticizing America. The ex-slave and abolitionist Frederick Douglas even said something to the effect that those who truly love their country criticize it. Those who don't love anything but what they can get out of a situation just march right along with the program.

I have never slapped you the way you have me now about saying how hard it is to be a Turk and a Muslim in the US. I don't care how much you criticize America. Before you judge me, maybe you should know my whole situation. Have a little compassion...

Sincerae said...

And as to respecting the elderly, Metin, my family never put any of my grandparents in a nursing home. We cared for my grandmother until she died at 92 in 2005. When she was in her first and final serious illness in the hospital, we would take turns staying at the hospital with her. The doctors and nurses marveled at that because nobody else was doing it. My family respect the elderly, so we don't follow the usual pattern of disposing of our elderly.

Metin said...

What made you think I was criticizing the U.S.? or treating the elderly in that manner?

My reference to elders is the respect for elders in how we refer to them. It's a cultural application, one that is being eroded away via oncoming generation(s).

I happen to think the U.S. has a wonderful Republic for which we believe and stand for.

I do not think the U.S. practices Democracy in its true sense. And doesn't claim to be. After all. we are a Republic. Big difference.

I wouldn't endorse democracy either if it means that a simple majority would rule over its minority.

It is America's desire to 'bring' democracy to the Middle East that I disagree with.

Some people are better off having a dictator keep them in line, so long as they're happy and at peace.

And I also do try to stay away from generalizations, or being stereotypical.

We're not talking about you or your grandmother. But try to show 'sensitivitism' when it comes to developing countries' plight to not change fast enough for you.

Also, try to avoid the personalization of issues that relate to the main topic.

If I did that, believe me, I would have lot to beef about all the countries and peoples.

Hans said...

Maybe the both of you need to emigrate to the Netherlands, or Finland..))
I can help, but I don't come with you..))

Metin said...

Hans...
What the (XXXX) are you talking about? Maybe you should emigrate out of Turkey!

Hans A.H.C. de Wit said...

Can we discus on 24 dec, with my wife..))))

Hans said...

Metin,
I think Sincerae make sense, in what she explains...
regards

Metin said...

I always had a problem with people who take things personally, as if they have some sort of an inferiority complex, and think the whole world is ganging up against them.

Certain groups, like the Turks, seem to have that disease. They are always on the defensive for some reason.

But in any case, I find it astonishing how some people think they know best for any given group, when they are not really part of that group.

It's like saying to a cancer patient, hey I know how u feel, when u yourself don't have cancer, but have hung out with people who have, or lived with them.

That's the problem with the Turks. They don't like it when non-Turks make comments about them, even if the comments are right on! Too much sensitivity . . .

Anywayz, I am moving on!

Gotta get ready for my weekend . . .

Hans A.H.C. de Wit said...

I agree fully...but you also sounds 'sensitive', as a Yank..))
He, Turks and Yanks have a lot in common, what I always say..))

Metin said...

I can't help it that America is the best!!!

:)

Metin said...

And I am not the one who is a 'non-Turk' by birthright.

that gives me the right to make fun of myself . . .

:)