Most of the Turkish bloggers and expats in Turkey who replied to the statements made by Newsweek journalist Fareed Zakaria, Turkish president Abdullah Gül and prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, like Erkan, Bea, Emre and Christine, put all the info about the ongoing discussion on the blog at http://www.sargasso.nl/.
Now it's time for comments of people from Turkey, the Netherlands and elsewhere to discuss these statements and our replies.
Today it's the 4th day of Belief in Democracy. In total there will be 8 statements published - of the three persons mentioned above - and the 8 replies from us. Each day: last day Friday the 12th. But discussion is open. You don't have to use your real name and you don't need to be a blogger!
Below are the first 4 statements, replies and comments.
Friday October 5 click here.
Saturday October 6 click here.
Sunday October 7 click here.
Monday October 8 click here.
So, join the debate.
Monday, October 08, 2007
Messages of Mercy
An advertising agency in Saudi Arabia plans to air public service commercials to promote kinder treatment of domestic helpers in a country where reports of abuse of foreign workers are rife. The ads will air on Arab satellite television stations after the holy month of Ramadan said Kaswara al-Khatib, founder and chief creative director of Full Stop Advertising. Continue reading here.
The three ads cost around $100,000 (dhs367,000) and were financed by a non-profit subsidiary of construction giant Saudi Bin Ladin Group, the family-run business which was set up by the father of Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden. "We deal with helpers as if they are not humans and have no feelings", said the 37-year-old former electrical engineer.
Everybody in the region knows how badly Saudi people are treating their maid/domestic helpers. Hope this awareness campaign creates not only attention for them during the holy month of Ramadan, but for a long time. There were couple of cases here as well, one Middle Eastern couple struggled their Filipino maid at their home, and locked her up in the house. Some kind of revenge like what American soldiers are doing in Iraq. The maid found a way to run away and went to the police station with bruised body and blood marks on her. Sad really:(((
Shop names in Turkish?
This is another ridiculous piece of legislation: all shop names must be renamed in Turkish in Bodrum. To protect the Turkish language....
I don't know how they will translate the BodyShop, McDonalds, Tesco, Reebok Store, Swarovski store etc. into Turkish.
Are the SHELL shop, BP shop, Total shop, still allowed? And what about Carrefour?
What about all the discos, hotels, restaurants?
Why not re-brand Bodrum as a city into Halicarnassus..)) That would be fun..
Sunday, October 07, 2007
Fatwas
The last 20 years I was wondering who can issue a fatwa, and who are authorized to do so? So many ridiculous of these kinds of 'verdicts' are issued in the last years.
Here is a list of fatwas, I don't know if we have to take them seriously. And here is a fatwa against naked sex...
But Saudi Arabia came with a solution: a web site with authorized fatwas. A pity that the site is in Arabic only...
Although the Saudi authorities announced to modernize their judiciary, they started this week with giving two gay men each 7.000 lashes. Do you survive that?
Here is a list of fatwas, I don't know if we have to take them seriously. And here is a fatwa against naked sex...
But Saudi Arabia came with a solution: a web site with authorized fatwas. A pity that the site is in Arabic only...
Although the Saudi authorities announced to modernize their judiciary, they started this week with giving two gay men each 7.000 lashes. Do you survive that?
Hacking, spam etc.
We always appreciate the comments of people, but discovering this morning that an anonymous person left more than 25, all the same, comments here is annoying. What's the fun about that?
Allowing bloggers only to leave comments is not an option. Many people don't have a blog, but that doesn't mean that they don't have anything worth reading to see.
Allowing bloggers only to leave comments is not an option. Many people don't have a blog, but that doesn't mean that they don't have anything worth reading to see.
Friday, October 05, 2007
Talk with Turkey, talk with Holland..
Believe in Democracy
04-10-07 om 17:01 - Carlos
On the 8th of October VPRO Dutch television will broadcast the documentary 'Turkije - Het Dilemma van de Democratie': 'Turkey - the dilemma of democracy'. The documentary will focus on the issue of EU membership for Turkey and the role of islam in a democracy.
Here at Sargasso we will discuss statements made in this documentary by Newsweek journalist Fareed Zakaria, Turkish president Abdullah Gül and prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
From October 5th until October 12th, each day at 13.00h (Amsterdam time, 14.00h Istanbul time) we will post one of these statements. With these statements we will post the views on the statement by a Dutch member of the European parliament, a Dutch journalist and producer, a Dutch-Turkish rapper and bloggers from the Turkish blogosphere.
All posts of this Dutch-Turkish blogging project can be found here. This blogging project is part of the Dutch democracy week WijZijnDeBaas (WeAreTheBoss): the Dutch contribution to the International Week for Democracy.
The statements will be provided in text and after the broadcasting of the documentary also in short video messages. Although normally on Sargasso we write in Dutch in this case we will be discussing in English, because we feel it's important non-Dutch (and especially Turkish) bloggers can join in. In this case we also ask our Dutch 'reaguurders' (commenters) to discuss in English, for the sake of what the internet is all all about: enabling worldwide communication.
Here are some of the blogs from the Turkish blogosphere (turkish and expat) who were contacted and/or contributed to this project:
erkansaka.net,
istanbulian.blogspot,
quirkglobalstrategies,
energynewsletterturkey.blogspot,
internations.blogspot,
arabisto.com,
remarkablesolutionsblog.com
mvdg.wordpress.
The classical dilemma of democracy is that a majority of people can vote within the system to abolish it and therefor eliminate democracy itself. Is democracy about having a majority, or is it about how the majority treats minorities within the system?
In theory a democracy can introduce the sharia. That's why for political commentator and Newsweek journalist Fareed Zakaria Turkey is an interesting test case in the VPRO Tegenlicht documentary. In the VPRO Tegenlicht documentary 'Democratie voor beginners ' (2004): 'Democracy for Starters' Zakaria warns that a political system can end in tyranny of the majority. In the coming documentary VPRO Tegenlicht poses the question: can democracy and islam co-exist?
By engaging in an Dutch-Turkish blogging project Sargasso wants to take the discussions one step further: beyond our own borders. Why have one discussion in Holland and one in Turkey, when we can try to understand each other viewpoints in a bilateral discussion?
04-10-07 om 17:01 - Carlos
On the 8th of October VPRO Dutch television will broadcast the documentary 'Turkije - Het Dilemma van de Democratie': 'Turkey - the dilemma of democracy'. The documentary will focus on the issue of EU membership for Turkey and the role of islam in a democracy.
Here at Sargasso we will discuss statements made in this documentary by Newsweek journalist Fareed Zakaria, Turkish president Abdullah Gül and prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
From October 5th until October 12th, each day at 13.00h (Amsterdam time, 14.00h Istanbul time) we will post one of these statements. With these statements we will post the views on the statement by a Dutch member of the European parliament, a Dutch journalist and producer, a Dutch-Turkish rapper and bloggers from the Turkish blogosphere.
All posts of this Dutch-Turkish blogging project can be found here. This blogging project is part of the Dutch democracy week WijZijnDeBaas (WeAreTheBoss): the Dutch contribution to the International Week for Democracy.
The statements will be provided in text and after the broadcasting of the documentary also in short video messages. Although normally on Sargasso we write in Dutch in this case we will be discussing in English, because we feel it's important non-Dutch (and especially Turkish) bloggers can join in. In this case we also ask our Dutch 'reaguurders' (commenters) to discuss in English, for the sake of what the internet is all all about: enabling worldwide communication.
Here are some of the blogs from the Turkish blogosphere (turkish and expat) who were contacted and/or contributed to this project:
erkansaka.net,
istanbulian.blogspot,
quirkglobalstrategies,
energynewsletterturkey.blogspot,
internations.blogspot,
arabisto.com,
remarkablesolutionsblog.com
mvdg.wordpress.
The classical dilemma of democracy is that a majority of people can vote within the system to abolish it and therefor eliminate democracy itself. Is democracy about having a majority, or is it about how the majority treats minorities within the system?
In theory a democracy can introduce the sharia. That's why for political commentator and Newsweek journalist Fareed Zakaria Turkey is an interesting test case in the VPRO Tegenlicht documentary. In the VPRO Tegenlicht documentary 'Democratie voor beginners ' (2004): 'Democracy for Starters' Zakaria warns that a political system can end in tyranny of the majority. In the coming documentary VPRO Tegenlicht poses the question: can democracy and islam co-exist?
By engaging in an Dutch-Turkish blogging project Sargasso wants to take the discussions one step further: beyond our own borders. Why have one discussion in Holland and one in Turkey, when we can try to understand each other viewpoints in a bilateral discussion?
Thursday, October 04, 2007
Last of the Iraqis - 5 - Art of Death in Mesopotaniam
I think many have heard about the methods used for torturing prisoners or politic prisoners to take confessions from them, we heard about the Russian who was poisoned with Uranium , or what happened in Abu-Ghraib, but I don't think that many people know what the militias and AQ does to Iraqis not to take confessions from them or force them to do anything, but just to kill them and enjoy their death and cause the maximum grief and suffer to their parents and beloved, or maybe terrorizing the people even more and make the people wish that they die by a bullet or an explosion, it's a blessing now if an Iraqi dies by a bullet or an explosion. Even death in Iraq isn't like anywhere else, those militias and AQ seems to enjoy killing and I think they look at it as an art or something, the more weird and savage the way they kill people in , the more creative they look at it , because as I said they look at it as an art!
Continue reading here. Warning: shocking pictures.
Wednesday, October 03, 2007
Time to take a stand
Things are slowly starting to return to normal following the recent Greek elections. As predicted the governing party New Democracy was returned to power and newcomers LA.O.S entered parliament, where they quickly offered their support to ND in electing the house speaker.
While everyone has been talking about why the losers lost, gone virtually unnoticed is the effect these elections have had on ND.
Problems with primary school text book.
For over a year the government had been backing a new primary school book which did not continue old nation building myths (common to many countries and which could be said fanatacised children) and education by repetition. Instead, the schoolbook (funded by the EU) was in line with a pan European education system that encouraged free thought and constructive criticism (and peaceful relations with its neighbours). The book was widely criticised by the pseudo-nationalist elements in Greece, such as LA.O.S and the Church. During the election the education minister lost her seat. Despite winning the election overall the government has instead listened to its racist elements in its party such as Nomarch of Thessaloniki, Mr Psomiades, the bishop of Thessaloniki and LA.O.S, and withdrawn the schoolbook and sent it to be pulped.
The only people protesting this is the small left wing party SYRIZA. They are the only ones in the media protesting the involvement of the church in dictating the education of our children. Meanwhile the foreign minister Dora Bakogianni is talking about the environment.
Not to denigrate green issues, but, if she wants to better relations with Turkey she, and not the small parties, should be at the forefront of defending the schoolbook, in the same way the former minister did. Because sometimes we have to do what is best for the country and not what ensures our re-election.
While everyone has been talking about why the losers lost, gone virtually unnoticed is the effect these elections have had on ND.
Problems with primary school text book.
For over a year the government had been backing a new primary school book which did not continue old nation building myths (common to many countries and which could be said fanatacised children) and education by repetition. Instead, the schoolbook (funded by the EU) was in line with a pan European education system that encouraged free thought and constructive criticism (and peaceful relations with its neighbours). The book was widely criticised by the pseudo-nationalist elements in Greece, such as LA.O.S and the Church. During the election the education minister lost her seat. Despite winning the election overall the government has instead listened to its racist elements in its party such as Nomarch of Thessaloniki, Mr Psomiades, the bishop of Thessaloniki and LA.O.S, and withdrawn the schoolbook and sent it to be pulped.
The only people protesting this is the small left wing party SYRIZA. They are the only ones in the media protesting the involvement of the church in dictating the education of our children. Meanwhile the foreign minister Dora Bakogianni is talking about the environment.
Not to denigrate green issues, but, if she wants to better relations with Turkey she, and not the small parties, should be at the forefront of defending the schoolbook, in the same way the former minister did. Because sometimes we have to do what is best for the country and not what ensures our re-election.
Tuesday, October 02, 2007
Afraid
I remember clearly the discussions in the late nineties: was Turkey eligible to become a member state of the EU. I lived in Amsterdam by then.
Most people supported the idea to get Turkey 'in'. But it was weird to hear that the Turkish people in the Netherlands warned us, and I am not talking about Kurdish Turks, I am talking about Turkish people from Istanbul, Izmir, and other developed cities. All of them said 'No'.
As I understand, most of them are living a relatively 'happy life' in the Netherlands. And are not eager to migrate to Turkey. Since they have more freedom to express their opinion and life style there than in Turkey.
Please follow the link below:
In fact, the discussion will be on line on:
This is the site of the the Dutch VPRO's Tegenlicht over the documentary of Oct. 8:
http://www.vpro.nl/programma/tegenlicht/afleveringen/35446086/
Enjoy.
Most people supported the idea to get Turkey 'in'. But it was weird to hear that the Turkish people in the Netherlands warned us, and I am not talking about Kurdish Turks, I am talking about Turkish people from Istanbul, Izmir, and other developed cities. All of them said 'No'.
As I understand, most of them are living a relatively 'happy life' in the Netherlands. And are not eager to migrate to Turkey. Since they have more freedom to express their opinion and life style there than in Turkey.
Please follow the link below:
In fact, the discussion will be on line on:
This is the site of the the Dutch VPRO's Tegenlicht over the documentary of Oct. 8:
http://www.vpro.nl/programma/tegenlicht/afleveringen/35446086/
Enjoy.
Monday, October 01, 2007
Cover millennia in Kyrenia
By Daniel Bardsley,
You could travel to every town on earth but I doubt you would find any place more beautiful than Kyrenia in northern Cyprus. With an imposing castle, a picturesque harbor lined with street cafes and a sweeping mountainous backdrop, it will take your breath away.
While the Greek-controlled Republic of Cyprus — which covers the southern two-thirds of this Mediterranean island — has become over-developed in its quest for the tourist dollar, northern Cyprus retains a quaint charm. For more.
Not many people know that much about northern Cyprus; it's politically isolated, traveling there is only possible through Istanbul (or through Larnaca, taking the bus to the Green Line and walking all the way to a bus or a cab) and it's recognized by Turkey only.
The beaches and everything else in the northern part of the divided island are untouched, although a boom of real estate developments have been seen over the past 3 years.
It's really a pity how the people are left alone, even though they wanted to be re-united with the rest of the island, through the Annan plan in 2004, but that didn't happen.
Is Turkey to blame?
EU, Schengen, and some idiots in Cyprus
Turkish Foreign ministry makes it also clear: visa is still required.
That especially Turkey has to deal with suspicious immigration- and custom officers is also related to the following.
Last week, a former high ranked official (2000-2006) of the Dutch Immigration Office published a book. Turkish people were allowed under a special law to get their spouses, husbands etc. over. After three years this person got a permanent residency and work permit. But what happened, after three years the couples divorced and announced that they planned to marry again with an other. So one person was able to get 8 people a residency etc. Clearly misusing the system.
Now last week, the State Secretary of Justice, announced a general pardon for 30.000 asylum seekers and illegal 'stranded' people. Only those with a criminal past or those who repeatedly lied about their identity will be sent back. There were so many cases pending which was a burden for all the courts in the Netherlands.
That Turkish doctors and dentists can not practice their profession in the Netherlands is normal; there is a well regulated health system, and contact between patient and caretaker must be in Dutch. If they learn Dutch, they still have to go through all kinds of tests.
For journalists the restrictions are tough, too. Just 10 days ago a Turkish friend, who happens to be a journalist and writer as well, asked me to help her/him with a Schengen visa. Since he/she travels at least once a month on invitation to different EU countries, she/he became so tired to get all the time a new visa. But I could not help. Next to that, a Schengen visa is not always, but in general, valid for all the EU member states.
Let me give you an example: Cyprus, the Southern part didn't sign the Schengen Acquis until last year. I was in the northern part with my wife, and wanted to go to the southern part. What happened on the Green Zone, is the most disturbing cross border experience for me, and I crossed a lot of borders. First, I have a Dutch/European passport. But since it was issued in Istanbul they started questioning me where I lived etc. I said: 'in Amsterdam and Istanbul, and none of your business' - my blood was already boiling. Anyway, they could not deny me access. Then, my wife showed her passport with her Schengen visa. They didn't allow her in. I started to make a scene and 'their boss' came over. He saw the fire in my eyes! Okay, he went into his office and started talking for 15 minutes. Came back, took me apart and said: 'I am sorry, you are right'. I told him to f.ck off, and we walked over the border, drank a cola and walked back and made pictures of the guys (not allowed..) but I was very quickly back...in northern Cyprus: safe.
That especially Turkey has to deal with suspicious immigration- and custom officers is also related to the following.
Last week, a former high ranked official (2000-2006) of the Dutch Immigration Office published a book. Turkish people were allowed under a special law to get their spouses, husbands etc. over. After three years this person got a permanent residency and work permit. But what happened, after three years the couples divorced and announced that they planned to marry again with an other. So one person was able to get 8 people a residency etc. Clearly misusing the system.
Now last week, the State Secretary of Justice, announced a general pardon for 30.000 asylum seekers and illegal 'stranded' people. Only those with a criminal past or those who repeatedly lied about their identity will be sent back. There were so many cases pending which was a burden for all the courts in the Netherlands.
That Turkish doctors and dentists can not practice their profession in the Netherlands is normal; there is a well regulated health system, and contact between patient and caretaker must be in Dutch. If they learn Dutch, they still have to go through all kinds of tests.
For journalists the restrictions are tough, too. Just 10 days ago a Turkish friend, who happens to be a journalist and writer as well, asked me to help her/him with a Schengen visa. Since he/she travels at least once a month on invitation to different EU countries, she/he became so tired to get all the time a new visa. But I could not help. Next to that, a Schengen visa is not always, but in general, valid for all the EU member states.
Let me give you an example: Cyprus, the Southern part didn't sign the Schengen Acquis until last year. I was in the northern part with my wife, and wanted to go to the southern part. What happened on the Green Zone, is the most disturbing cross border experience for me, and I crossed a lot of borders. First, I have a Dutch/European passport. But since it was issued in Istanbul they started questioning me where I lived etc. I said: 'in Amsterdam and Istanbul, and none of your business' - my blood was already boiling. Anyway, they could not deny me access. Then, my wife showed her passport with her Schengen visa. They didn't allow her in. I started to make a scene and 'their boss' came over. He saw the fire in my eyes! Okay, he went into his office and started talking for 15 minutes. Came back, took me apart and said: 'I am sorry, you are right'. I told him to f.ck off, and we walked over the border, drank a cola and walked back and made pictures of the guys (not allowed..) but I was very quickly back...in northern Cyprus: safe.
A Saudi way to say 'I am sorry'...you married the wrong guy...
According to the Saudi Arabian newspaper, Al Shams, of last Saturday a man divorced from his wife since she was watching TV programs which are presented by men only. That was for him 'inappropriate behavior' - especially when she was with the television 'alone'.
I don't know if there are female TV talents, looks like a bit difficult since they have to cover themselves completely. Since men don't need to go to a court to get divorced in Saudi Arabia, it's simple: you dump her near the trash...
Women are also (still) not allowed to drive there, so they have to hire a male(!) driver, which costs them half of their salary.
The picture above shows two Saudi journalists during a press conference of UN Commission on Human Rights in Riyadh. What a country...
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